Everything We Don't Know

I don't know anything about that, Murray, but here's what I think (hehe). People are full of themselves, including me.

Wait for it ...

Really funny Patricia.

Because it is fun. Aside from that, have you not invited folks to not respond to this thread?

By the way, your avatar is perfect for this thread! Sometimes I feel as baffled as you do, believe me.

It could be folks who are following the thread because they too would like to know the answer. It's frustrating to the person who posted the questions. I don't know how many times I would think " daaaa !"

Murray, I'm not an expert or psychotherapist and have no clue why anyone would want to
respond to a subject or something they have no answer to.
However, what I think is this case is just someone (me) wanting to be a smart-ass... lol

Yes, I have, Robert, but hopefully on point. That was the point of the thread. I like your approach.

Your last comment was a double negative, and I get confused by such things; but yes, I invite comments.

It's simple really, I think. People are lonely ( for whatever reason ) and desire communication.

Now, they may very well be lonely due to peer rejection because they have a habit of being an expert on everything that they don't know.

We no longer sit on rocking chairs on front porches watching the cars and the clouds go by.
We want things fast.
Some people have not adapted to that yet.

Me, I'm still chasing my cheese.

As you will probably ascertain shortly if not already by present and forthcoming responses... there are usually any number of reasons or answers to a query like this one. I personally think, "some" people just want to help by doing the best they can. If it's not the perfect answer, it's the closest they can come to it within their own frame of thinking (not necessarily yours). Their responses may not be to our idea of what a response should be in a given situation, but hey... you probably know by now how the world turns. People are different and not always logical or governed by common sense.

Because We the People of the United States of America have a Constitutional right to freedom of speech. And we have no intention of letting anyone forget that. Ever. LOL

Disclaimer: As always, not legal advice.

People like to tell you what they do know. Even if it's not exactly what YOU want to know.

Cheryl,

Can I send you $10 for that?

Dave

Murray,

Some people are very comfortable saying, "I don't know". Other people get very uptight around that concept.

I honestly think being answerable to uptight people is a waste of time.

Dave

Dave: Nope. It's free speech, and worth every penny.

I think most of the time people are just trying to be helpful. Besides, just because it isn't the exact thing the person wanted to know doesn't mean it's not useful. Knowledge adjacent often leads to the knowledge sought.

I will tell you, if you want to waste time around extremely uptight people with massive time deadlines and 110 degree temps.......just tell a table of people about food you know nothing about as a waiter. Any waiter knows to ask the chef how it comes to the table when the waiter had not previously dealt with the item.

On a Friday night you will find people out of their minds if you pretend to know what you dont. You say, "I do not know, I will check".

How many artists here have been waiters or waitresses? It is only part of the job to say that.

Dave

It's called empathy.

It's knowledge that the threads are made of silk and will slip down to the bottom of the page and be lost before long if nobody at LEAST bumps the question back up. So sometimes people opine just so that the question stays alive for the imposter.

There are times too where giving the non answer answer will spur someone who otherwise might not have bothered to answer to do so.

"How do you make a cup of tea?"#1

"Well I don't usually make tea but I like Iced tea, I think you start with the ice cubes and freeze the tea bags." #2

"Uhhhh."#1

"Tea bags! What are you? some sort of drone from the post-industrial mass market society!?" #3

"Tea? What's the matter with you? Everybody knows how to make tea. You go to Starbucks and say Give me a Vente Chai Latte with a dose of that flavoring you love the most." #4

"Coffee, must have coffee before you make a cup of tea!"#2

"Erm uhh but..."#1

"Don't listen to these idjits! You boil water and you pour in into a cup that has a tea bag in it..." #5

Or not...

It's probably no sillier than the person who starts a discussion thread with a question that's been asked and opinionated a 100 times before. Why do they do it? What's wrong with their search fingers? Yet, if you post too many images actually having to do with ART on a Fine Art website, you can get into trouble. Hey, I don't make the rules.

Because opinions count more than facts these days.

well, i don't anything about this, but i can say this.... i think its a lot like the people in the background of a crime scene - waving their hands hoping to make the news. look i was on tv - i'm guy number 3 doing that. same goes for this, they want to be seen, or seen as being helpful, because they have a 30-50% chance of getting it right.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

usually when people don't know anything about the topic you're asking about then starts with 'here's what i think' generally it doesn't end well. Usually you end up regretting that you asked it in the first place.

Murray, I hope by now you've noticed that I have not responded here, because I do not seek attention at any cost, nor do I indulge in double negatives. This is a positive post.......not ! heheheeeee

If you want an answer to a specific question, it may be better to ask specific people.

When it's opened to a forum for anybody to participate, all bets are off.

If there's something in the question that I DO know, I'll answer that part. If I don't know part of the question, I'll say I don't know about that, and maybe say a person's name who probably does know. Not knowing everything within the question doesn't stop me from posting though. I have this sick need to help a few people daily :)

Exactly Murray. That's why you don't see me comment much in these forums, cuz: 1) I've been asking the same question as you. 2) I only 'speak' when I have something constructive to say that help everyone reading the thread. Thank for bringing this up. Now I'll go read this thread ...

I just wish I could write down, STML, everything I don't know.

So much for joining a thread and having nothing to contribute to the OP.

A post, even an I don't know post, bumps the thread up so hopefully someone who does know will see it and answer it. I can't stand when someone asks a question and NO ONE replies to it

Uther,

RE:...." "Don't listen to these idjits! You boil water and you pour in into a cup that has a tea bag in it..." #5

Or not."

To me...NOT

I pour water into a cup, put a tea bag in it, and THEN boil the water...using the microwave.

That way, I don't have to watch and wait for water to boil.


And I can go on my merry way.....and if I forget about that cup in the microwave...What's the damage?

I can always go back and reheat it or just drink tepid tea


But what the hell do I know about the proper way to make tea.?


Edit:
RE: "Make Tea"
I should have said "Brew Tea"

Roger.. what do you know about how to make tea..... I can tell you.. nothing LOL

As Irish immigrant's son, I am not sure if Roger or Abbie is the insulting one.

LOL

Dave

Wait... we're only supposed to be snarky on Wednesdays? Uh oh :x

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Board Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

Susan,

Abbie is into Thursday.

Dave

If I rat her out will that make me a sNarc? :x

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Board Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire
Hint: Yes, yes it will.

I am trying to decode that.

It might take me into next Saturday.

Dave

I've really enjoyed reading all the comments.

I think that Jeffrey may be on to something when he writes, "People like to tell you what they do know. Even if it's not exactly what YOU want to know." My philosophy is to be silent unless I know 'the answer' or can lead the questioner in the right direction.

I guess my pet peeve where this subject is concerned is the number of people who parrot what they've seen on the internet (especially photo equipment reviews), or what they think they've seen. There are also those who issue platitudes, such as "maybe you should try the Rule of Thirds." Quite often, breaking the rules makes interesting images; and just as often, a powerful image can arise with no concern at all for the 'classic' formal rules.

Also, does the questioner have an obligation to do some basic research so that their query can have some 'teeth'? Like, maybe limit the camera or lens question to a choice between two or three models, rather than "What's the best lens for landscape photography?" Or, "Is it safe to lick my brushes when using watercolors?" Of course it is! I made that last one up, but you get the idea.

In my opinion, someone asking a serious question deserves a serious answer, one which addresses what the questioner wants to know; not one that is intended to showcase the answerer's knowledge, whether or not it reflects the original question. I posted this topic because I've wasted lots of time reading irrelevant posts, scratched my head over the misleading ones, or seen many wrong answers cobbled from Internet posts and articles.

And yes, a reasonable amount of snark is tolerated on any day, but the limit is dramatically increased by 64% on Wednesdays, and by an almost unbelievable 81% on the second Wednesday of the month.

Murray,

You and I are living in two different universes in this forum.

I never read the camera technical threads. I do not really know what an F stop is.

Every now and then I see your occasional thread here and think good to see Murray is still around.

Dave

Tea Traditions

According to Chinese legend, tea was born in 2727 BC, when the Emperor Shen Nong was purifying water in the shelter of a tea tree, and several leaves blew into the pot. The resulting brew, of superb fragrance, color and taste, made the emperor rejoice. Tea soon became a daily drink in Chinese culture.

In India, another legend tells the story of Prince Dharma, who left his homeland for China, to preach Buddhism. He vowed not to sleep during his 9–year mission. Toward the end of his third year, when he was overtaken by fatigue, he grabbed a few leaves of a tea shrub and chewed them up. They gave him the strength necessary to stay awake for the remaining 6 years of his mission.

The Japanese version of this story has the exhausted Bodi Dharma falling asleep, however. Upon awakening, he was so disgusted with himself, he tore off his eyelids, to ensure that they would never inadvertently close again. The place where he threw them on the ground produced enchanted (tea) shrubs with leaves having the power to keep eyelids open.

http://theteaspot.com/tea-traditions.html
http://theteaspot.com/

Wow, those silly Japanese . . .

Dave,

To give a serious example, someone might inquire about scanning/copying artwork. When I see that, it's usually followed by various, often contradictory, advice from people who often seem never to have tried the methods they're advising.

It sort of reminds me of something the speaker said at a Photoshop seminar I attended. There were about 700 of us there and he asked how many of us are self-taught in Photoshop. Most hands went up. Then he asked, "How much did your teacher know? A murmur fell over the crowd. It seemed a poignant question.

The reason as already mentioned is threefold. We like to say we are interested in the question. That is way better than having no response. Second we want to keep the thread alive so someone will see it. And third we want to book,ark the post so we can check back later. So there is the obvious answer to your snarky question.

Murray,

There is a basic intuition an artist has to have. No one can train them for that. Some of the best trained artists were never prepared for the experiments they entered into, ie Picasso and Pollock.

Dave

PS, I hear you about the v600, it was well reported here in a good sized window of time that it was a very useful model to use for scanning paintings.

PPS, Murray, you can not learn what you already know.

I have the answer to your question right here, Murray. It is like taking pictures nowadays. You do not need to load the camera with expensive film. You shoot whenever you are in front of anything. The job today is erasing things, not producing things. Laziness wins.

even worse, Murray, are those that definitely do NOT know, but post an answer anyway....to establish a sense of importance, perhaps?
Sooner or later, those who pay attention can easily spot 'em....and then we ignore everything they say!
Ironically, in an attempt to become a VIP in this forum, they create the opposite effect.

I agree Lutz. I'd never thought of that analogy, though.

Marlene, you've nailed it; from my perspective, anyway. What you've written echoes my thoughts when posting this thread. There are some here who I no longer pay attention to because they frequently chime in on topics that they seem to know nothing about. It makes it much more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

MURRAY,
I feel bad for the innocent newbies who trust all answers they get to their questions. Sigh

I'm late coming to this, it's now snarky Saturday. I have no idea why people offer their 2 cents worth when it is irrelevant to the question. BUT I make a mean tinfoil hat.

Murray,

I think most people here offer value in their responses.

Often when someone devalues the next person's ideas and thoughts, it is only a reflection on their negative complex. Not actually reality based. I think that leads to one or two posters being far too uptight in the forum.

There are many ways to do everything. Deciding in advance who has all the answers is nonsense.

The old adage applies take what you want and leave the rest. Live and let live. I would add do not take out your, generic, personal problems on others.

Dave

Jim,

Some people are very good with some technical questions. Others are not. Each of us has our own expertise in what we specifically do. Sometimes people stretch that to areas they do not know nor necessarily understand. I do not understand that either.

The rest of art theory is in complete flux. There is no one answer. That is more what I am referring to, because I see that in very objective and often technical terms.

Also we have so many options for marketing, but marketing can be very elusive, so there is no one size fits all. In fact there may not be one size fits even two people with internet marketing. People keep asking though new and old members. Most people add their opinions and everyone should be taking it as opinions all the way around.

Dave

Having spent some years in IT support, I know exactly why. When people have problems with gadgets or software (cameras and computers certainly included in that) that they can't diagnose themselves, they call an "expert". If it's a forum like this, an email, or if it's a phone call, they relay the problem they DON'T understand in the words that they DO understand.

90% of the time, they don't understand the problem, so they resort to that old saw, "it won't work". I, on the other side of the phone call, am supposed to be able to diagnose the problem based on "won't work", screen all red, camera won't start, dog ran away when I was trying to take its picture....you can see where this goes. If I respond to "camera don't work" with something like, "did you check to see if it's turned on" or, "is the battery dead", then they get offended cuz' I just implied that they are dumb, even though about 1/3 of the time, that IS the problem. Often, as the fixit guy, you really need to be there to see what they're doing before you can even try to fix it.

Those of us out here, wanting to sound like we are under control and full of knowledge, like to chime in, sound like an expert and, sometimes, our suggestions are right but, when you're receiving help requests that like, if you sound like you're certain and your suggestion is not right, then you come off like an idiot. When you're diagnosing from a distance, it's better to just seem uncertain so you won't be wrong.

If it's something I know nothing about, I just don't post a response. However, if it's something I know nothing about but have often wondered the same thing as the OP, I WILL say, "I'm glad you started this thread because I've often wondered the same thing. I'll be curious to see the responses". That way the OP feels supported and not stupid in asking the question, and as someone else already mentioned, it will bump the thread so that someone who possibly knows the answer sees it and comes in with some valuable advice.

And I, too, really dislike those who come in and give advice and you just KNOW it's backwards, even though they say it with authority. I would like to be in the same room with these people with a cream pie ready to throw in their face :-).

Mary, what's the Internet version of a cream pie?

Haha, Mary, I'm with you!

When I first joined this site eight years ago (wow, has it been that long?), I probably made plenty of silly mistakes in the forum. This is the only forum I ever have participated in. I've tried to learn along the way! In case I've ever come across as a pompous know-it-all in an area for which I have had no results, then I do apologize, and I'll try not to do it again.

LOL

Doug!!! You just described my life. I'm a mix of Jane Marple and Sherlock Holmes on most tech support issues.

Abbie, I had no idea that you're transgender. Wow!

::::::::taking orders for cream pies:::::::

Murray, I'm not but the name could be

Yeah, like "Robin."

Robin here is normally male.... As in the male bird

Robyn is female

Any name is either is that's what you parents call you or you like it. Look at a boy named Sue, Marilyn Manson or Marion....(john wayne)

Yeah, you're right. Perhaps 'Robyn' is an Anglicism. Admittedly, it's a small sample, but I've known two Robins here (the States).

RE:... "Robin"

Are we being "Hoodwinked"?


Now getting down to business.

As the champion of the Non-Sequitur, I'm now butting in

When I see a group all in sync, all on the same path, logically going step by step to a conclusion, I can't help myself by interjecting, "But, what if?",

Isn't that what art is all about, asking "But, what if?"


Edit:
Changed "sinc" to "sync" ( before anyone can catch the misspelling)

People don't usually word it like your example. Instead of saying "I don't know anything about that, but here's what I think" they often word it more like "I'm not an expert in that area, but here's what I think." It's simply an example of someone's trying to help out, but not wanting to sound officious or like a know-it-all. Modesty. Caution. Stuff like that. And, frankly, when you're talking about art, perhaps the most subjective topic of all, most of the answers are usually a matter of opinion, at least to a degree.

Murray, the next time someone gives bad advice in a thread in which I'm participating, I'm just going to post "coconut cream" and step out LOL. Let them figure it out from there.

Mary, spread the word... That's a great idea

LOL Abbie. I'd rather just confuse them or let them think I'm nuts....shhhh, only those of us reading this thread know what it means.

Lol Marlene! On the internet version of creampie!
Ermmm..”pullsmind out of gutter now”.
Bad girls! Bad!